The Gaming Den

Prak_Anima wrote:for Congress to make a law saying leaking documents makes someone immune to rape charges in other countries?

He never leaked any documents, so he would still have to face the charges even if they did.

I still don't actually know what the hell "Rape: Least Serious (Sex By Surprise)" is. That i only a crime in Sweden, and I have yet to see anyone who could actually explain what the hell kind of crime it actually is. As far as I can tell it is the crime of having a condom break during sex and then leaving the country before the police could have you tested for STDs, because the Swedish police apparently have time on their hands.

Anyway, Joe Lieberman did announce of Julian Assange's posting "I think it’s the most serious violation of the Espionage Act in our history." So yes, there are sitting senators who are asking for Assange to be extradited. There are even morons in congress who want him tried for treason, despite him not actually being an American.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:I still don't actually know what the hell "Rape: Least Serious (Sex By Surprise)" is. That i only a crime in Sweden, and I have yet to see anyone who could actually explain what the hell kind of crime it actually is. As far as I can tell it is the crime of having a condom break during sex and then leaving the country before the police could have you tested for STDs, because the Swedish police apparently have time on their hands.
-Username17

"Sexual coercion", which I think is what you're referring to, is when you force someone to "perform or tolerate a sexual action" without there actually being sex involved. Like forcing someone to masturbate while you watch, or whatever.

That said, I've taken a look at the various press releases that the Prosecution Authority has been regurgiating during the last few weeks, and as far as I can see, Assange is being charged with rape, unlawful coercion, and two counts of sexual assault. Unless I'm missing something, the crime you're referring to isn't actually included in the charges.

I asked my girlfriend (Swedish, so knows this stuff just like I know all Australian laws*) and she says:

There is, it's just that it counts under "rape" header. Normally, rape counts as having sex with someone against their will, but if that someone is sleeping and the rapist starts having sex with them, then does it count as rape, since they haven't actually refused? By the swedish law, it does count as rape despite there not being a declared non-want before hand.

And then the anti-feminists went "so if I wake my wife up with sex, am I a rapist?" and things went downhill from there.

*This is not true.

That's pretty retarded. Giving consent isn't even close to not declaring non-consent. Is it really too much trouble to ask somebody if you can wake them up with sex before they go to sleep?

better to ask forgiveness than permission?

Assange is definitely some manner of douche bag (possibly some manner of vermin, I know not what kind), though I think "Sex by surprise" was his defense, not the actual charge* which means, as far as I can tell, he clapped the lights on, popped a party popper while blowing a horn, and then yelled surprise as he put his dick in her, and thinks that's a valid defense of his actions.

Hell, I'm still caught on the fact that people want the man, a native of another country, tried for treason, and executed/assassinated/whatever.


*disclaimer: I am paying less attention to this whole debacle than I even did in mass, so... yeah, I know jack shit about what's going on

Pfft. In Roman times they wouldn't even bother with trials. A non-citizen giving away state secrets? Crucify him as a filthy barbarian and leave his rotting body along the Appian Way as an example to others.

I am saddened by how people no longer practice good Roman virtues.

CatharzGodfoot wrote:That's pretty retarded. Giving consent isn't even close to not declaring non-consent. Is it really too much trouble to ask somebody if you can wake them up with sex before they go to sleep?

Also, it appears in the broken condom case, that if events are presented are true (which may not be the case)

*She was in favour
* The condom broke
* She said stop
*He didn't

Is rape, but obviously eye witness testimony etc.

They haven't formally laid charge and won't give any real details out so no clue what they're even on about really. Supposedly the women in question bragged about it on twitter afterwards and the rape accusation came up later. Until the Swedes are forced to produce some evidence we don't have a clue what went on.

I've heard the term 'illegal minor' being thrown around, and that the 'sex-by-surprise' angle was speculatively mentioned by one side's lawyer and got jumped on because it was the only thing either side had mentioned. Swedish law seems to prohibit making public the exact charges in sex crimes.

I guess the moral of all this is "don't have sex in Sweden". I mean seriously, the women absolutely bragged about having sex with him, probably haven't produced much in the way of evidence that a rape actually occurred...and it's an extraditable offense.

Yowza, pretty sure many of our former heads of state/politicos are legimately charged with much worse crimes, with much more convincing evidence, with extradition totally off the table.

Zinegata wrote:Pfft. In Roman times they wouldn't even bother with trials. A non-citizen giving away state secrets? Crucify him as a filthy barbarian and leave his rotting body along the Appian Way as an example to others.

I am saddened by how people no longer practice good Roman virtues.

I particularly am a fan of one thing the Romans did. I forget exactly when other than it was after a period of Roman expansion, but they had terrible economic problems. It was cheaper to buy a slave than pay an employee, so unemployment skyrocketed. After a near civil war, they decided to give out parcels of land in Gaul, Iberia, and Brittania. That both solved the unemployment problem, and it got troublemakers as far away from Rome as possible.

The only drawback is that America is only warring with two of quite possibly the shittiest places in the world from what my military friends and family have told me.

Best Explanation

-Username17

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

Zinegata wrote:Pfft. In Roman times they wouldn't even bother with trials. A non-citizen giving away state secrets? Crucify him as a filthy barbarian and leave his rotting body along the Appian Way as an example to others.

I am saddened by how people no longer practice good Roman virtues.

I particularly am a fan of one thing the Romans did. I forget exactly when other than it was after a period of Roman expansion, but they had terrible economic problems. It was cheaper to buy a slave than pay an employee, so unemployment skyrocketed. After a near civil war, they decided to give out parcels of land in Gaul, Iberia, and Brittania. That both solved the unemployment problem, and it got troublemakers as far away from Rome as possible.

Hey, and rather than trying to prosecute Bradley Manning we can just decimate our troops.

FrankTrollman wrote:Best Explanation

-Username17

I am now hooked. That's awesome.

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Hey, and rather than trying to prosecute Bradley Manning we can just decimate our troops.

I approve of decimations. People nowadays need good old fashioned discipline!

According to certain anti-freedom members of society, Julian Assange should be swiftly and surely murdered by the government. I'm just going to chalk this one up there as a tally against Ronnie Raygun because fuck it it's probably his fault in some way.

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/ ... -groupies/

I think this is one of the more accurate articles on the SEX CRIMES case

I for one welcome our new WikiLeaks overlords.

What, that's a big old antifeminist rant. Though actually fairly accurate on some of the minutiae of the case it wraps it all up into a ball of crazy anti feminist agenda.

It's worth noting that many feminist groups are LIVID over these charges. They have a hard time having authorities in many of the countries involved actually being willing to even listen to charges of GENUINE non-consensual even violent or worse forms of rape and THIS ridiculous set of charges has all the lawyers and police from multiple countries and interpol itself bending over backwards? REAL Feminists can't get a British police officer to listen to some poor woman who's been beaten and raped but Interpol will cross the world and part the oceans to extradite Assange to face (as yet not even pressed) charges over a broken condom everybody shrugged and forgot about at the time?

Look, here is a BETTER article about it all Over here.

His accusers may well just be trivially annoyed exes, one of whom has basically been on the CIA payroll associated strongly with American funded propaganda, "dirty tricks" and terrorist acts. The Swedish Authorities don't have the evidence to press ACTUAL charges. Feminist groups and prominent feminists are very angry at the ridiculous priority given to this apparently trivial case and the whole thing looks a lot like a toothless US and conservative political backed smear campaign.

PhoneLobster wrote:
His accusers may well just be trivially annoyed exes, one of whom has basically been on the CIA payroll associated strongly with American funded propaganda, "dirty tricks" and terrorist acts.

Just to be clear, if I did my thesis about the bay of pigs, I'd be basically on the CIA payroll?

I agree with Crikey's assessment that it is a wild conspiracy theory, and that much of the bleating is way to anti-complainant.

Yeah, the link is wrapped up in anti-feminist paper, but the information actually seems fairly good. Here's the Guardian's take on the details of the case.

cthulhu wrote:Just to be clear, if I did my thesis about the bay of pigs, I'd be basically on the CIA payroll?

That depends on whether you published it and other articles for an extended period through an American government backed anti-Cuban propaganda rag.

And then worked for an anti Cuban American backed "feminist" organization with very strong ties to a very prominent CIA funded and backed Terrorist.

This woman has spent much of her adult life working as a diplomat and a political activist in the USA and in Cuba (and left Cuba after being advised BY the US that she was "no longer safe" there...) and has been paid to agitate and spread pro US anti Cuban propaganda.

Now she is associated with a smear propaganda campaign against one of the USA's most hated political enemies of the moment? What a Surprise!

No really. What OTHER motivation does she have? And remember this isn't just her. Because without MASSIVE backing this set of as yet vaporous and insubstantial charges would not have progressed to the ridiculous degree they have.

Do you REALLY believe that any woman could have made this complaint against anyone and gotten this far with it? Really?

You can read the guardian (a rabid left wing paper by any measure), as well as I can.

Buts let go with the wikileaks source on the ground

The co-ordinator of the WikiLeaks group in Stockholm, who is a close colleague of Assange and who also knows both women, told the Guardian: "This is a normal police investigation. Let the police find out what actually happened. Of course, the enemies of WikiLeaks may try to use this, but it begins with the two women and Julian. It is not the CIA sending a woman in a short skirt."

So in essence, I think you're wrong and the guy on Assange's team on the ground is right.

That blog is hilariously offensive.